Select ratio/proportions being ignored

[RobS]

Hi,

PL 16, MacOSX 10.6.2

I cannot figure this out at all... sometimes it works and others PL refuses point blank to accept selection proportion ratios types into the box.

I made a selection in one image, setting proportions to be 554:172... worked fine.

I went to another image and went to set the same selection proportions, hit return and dragged a selection... proportions reverted to 3:2... doesn't matter what I try, even selecting 1:1 from the dropdown list, the selection stays at 3:2.

How do I make PL do what I believe I'm telling it to do?

Cheers

rob

[RobS]

Hi again,

Well, I've got it accepting different ratios, but there seems no rhyme, reason or consistency, and therefore no predictability to how it will behave at any point in time... none that I can see anyway.

The solution was to unclick the 'proportional' checkbox in the tool settings, enter the desired proportions ratio and recheck the proportional checkbox. The bizarre thing is that earlier this afternoon it was not necessary to go through all that to achieve the same thing, I just set the proportions either by direct editing or from the dropdown and that was it.

I have no idea what's going on, but at least I have a workaround.

Rob

[Koyaanis]

I've run into this too in the Windows version. I just learned to live with this annoyance is all. If you frequently use unique ratios you can always edit the "LassoRatio.txt" file in the defaults folder. You can even do that while the program is running. Just select another tool then go back to the lasso tool, your edits will show up. There should be a universal button on all tools and all filters where you just click on it and save it as a quick-recall preset that you can name without all the goofing around deep into the save/load-presets options. So annoying and non-intuitive that just stopped using that aspect of all of the filters and tools.

What I'm finding even more annoying however is that the option for "crop to new window" was removed from v15 to v16. I used that all the time. And there's no shortcut key-press to emulate it (that I've found so far), nor is it in the help file.

I also fail to comprehend why the separate "crop" tool function was put into PhotoLine at all, when all those features could have been added to the "lasso" tool just as easily and made it even more effective. I never use the "crop" tool except in rare instances when I want the rules-grids overlay or to quickly change that layer's dpi properties. Was the addition of the crop tool added from complaints by beginners that didn't know what the lasso tool was for?

What a shame that so many useful functions are being removed or dumbed-down just because people who aren't as advanced in editing are suggesting the programmers to remove them. PhotoLine seems to be going downhill by taking advice from beginners.

[OldRadioGuy]

What a shame that so many useful functions are being removed or dumbed-down just because people who aren't as advanced in editing are suggesting the programmers to remove them. PhotoLine seems to be going downhill by taking advice from beginners.

I saw similar complaints in the Paint Shop Pro forum years ago as PSP added new time-saving tools, and I've heard that some Photoshop users complained about some new dumbed-down tools, too. Several of these tools were first added to Photoshop Elements, but most users came around to wanting them in Photoshop because they saved time.

Personally, I like some of the changes I've seen in version 16 because they tend to be more like the Photoshop standard, making it easier for non-German speakers to learn PL.

However, I understand your viewpoint. You're a veteran of PL and have learned to utilize the old tools.

Bob

[Martin Huber]

What I'm finding even more annoying however is that the option for "crop to new window" was removed from v15 to v16. I used that all the time. And there's no shortcut key-press to emulate it (that I've found so far), nor is it in the help file.

Ctrl+C and Ctrl+E?

Martin

[Stefan_E]

What I'm finding even more annoying however is that the option for "crop to new window" was removed from v15 to v16. I used that all the time. And there's no shortcut key-press to emulate it (that I've found so far), nor is it in the help file.

... maybe Ctrl-C / Ctrl-E works for you (Copy / Past as Document).

Btw., I find the notion "to new window" (it's still in the help text, search for "new window") a bit odd: PL to my knowledge doesn't allow multiple windows to view the same document...

Stefan

[RobS]

Hi,

It seems that at least I'm not alone in having lasso ratio's ignored at times, and it's also a problem that occurs cross-platform.

That I have managed to identify a 'solution' to my immediate problem is good, but also besides the point. It shouldn't be necessary.

Software should behave in a consistent and predictable manner, and the problem I've commented on here is above all else, one arising from unpredictability. That a set of steps (in this case to setup a custom lasso ratio) should work on one occasion and (for no obviously apparent reason) not on others, gets to the heart of usability and learnability.

So far there's no explanation of _why_ it is happening. If that were explained and understood then perhaps I'd feel more confident when using PL, instead of uncertain whether this time it will work as it did last time, and being frustrated (though not now so surprised) when it doesn't.

Cheers


Rob

[Gerhard Huber]

I made a selection in one image, setting proportions to be 554:172... worked fine.
I went to another image and went to set the same selection proportions

why did you do this, normally, the proportions will stay the same, when you change images

hit return and dragged a selection... proportions reverted to 3:2... doesn't matter what I try, even selecting 1:1 from the dropdown list, the selection stays at 3:2.
How do I make PL do what I believe I'm telling it to do?

I can't get this problem here. There must be another "trick" on your site.

Gerhard

[RobS]

Hi,

why did you do this, normally, the proportions will stay the same, when you change images

Because I wish to drag a lasso (selection) to match those proportions. If I chose the lasso tool, type the required proportions into the ratio box then _sometimes_ I am able to drag to those proportions, and on others it utterly refuses to accept the custom dimensions, reverting to (in the current case) 3:2. I am unable to predict or explain steps to reproduce the behaviour because it just 'happens' for no apparent reason. I know that isn't very helpful towards identifying a specific problem, but there isn't a pattern I can yet see to this (EDIT: see below: there appears to be a curative pattern once it has asserted itself, but I cannot determine what causes the issue to start in the first place)... Sometimes it works as I want, others it 'works' according to some unknown alternative set of rules.

The problem isn't so much that proportions are changing between images, it's that Sometimes the custom ration I enter is being completely ignored when I actually drag the lasso.

On an image I have open at the moment I've just tried the following:

1) Choose the lasso tool, don't drag a selection yet
2) Check that proportional is checked (the ratio is currently 1:1.19 (I don't know where that came from, but it's irrelevent for now)
3) Manually change the ratio to 554:172 (or anything else come to that) This is a letter-box type of ratio
4) Hit return and note that the just typed ratio remains and is highlighted in the ratio box... Assumed meaning here is that it is set and active
5) Now drag the lasso and wonder why the heck it is drawing a portrait orientation, but note that on release the ratio field is now reporting 1:1.19 again.
6) Wonder what on earth is going on here.
7) Unselect the 'proportional' checkbox
Retype the desired ratio
9) Drag the lasso and note that this time the correct desired ratio has 'stuck'

This suggests that with the 'proportional' checkbox checked, even though the interface will indicate that a new ratio has been set, it will in fact NOT be updated correctly and the old ratio will remain active. The act of unchecking 'proportional', changing the ratio and then re-checking 'proportional' clears the problem and makes the new ratio active.

I should not have to do that just to change ratio.

When in the mode of refusing to accept custom dimensions it will also refuse to apply any selected from the preset lasso ratio list (1:1, 1:2, 2:1...)

For example:

1) Drag a lasso/selection with proportional set.
2) With the lasso still active (outlined) change the ratio to something different
3) Sometimes the new ratio is applied to the current lasso, sometimes (when in 'stubborn refusal' mode) it won't, keeping the proportions as they were originally dragged.

I've observed both behaviours described in #3. It's reproducble, but not reliably, so I can't say do this and you _will_ see the problem. Again, this can be cured by toggling 'proportional' setting off/on either side of changing the ratio, but as above, this should not be necessary... and I also recall, though have to check again, that sometimes it does work OK without doing the proportional toggle.

Cheers


Rob

[RobS]

Hi again,

Having shutdown and re-opened PL I am now unable to duplicate the problem. I've tried with one and two images open, each with different ratios selected and PL behaves completely as it should.

The trigger for the problem may therefore be down to a peculiar set of circumstances, but I have seen it in more than one PL session, so it's not a completely one-off case, I'm just unable to pin-down the exact trigger for it.

Once triggered though it is immensely frustrating, and a restart of PL may not always be a convenient action to take.

I'll advise if I can identify the trigger for this.

Cheers


Rob

[Gerhard Huber]

...
3) Manually change the ratio to 554:172 (or anything else come to that) This is a letter-box type of ratio
4) Hit return and note that the just typed ratio remains and is highlighted in the ratio box... Assumed meaning here is that it is set and active...

After hitting Return, the ratio should not be highlighted. Is it really so?

Gerhard

[Pjotr]

In my copy of PL V 16.00 64bit it isnt highlighted when i type the ratio in and hit return then.

Greetings Peter

[Martin Huber]

After hitting Return, the ratio should not be highlighted. Is it really so?

On OS X it is so.

Martin