Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

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SJ9000
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Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by SJ9000 » Sun 29 Sep 2013 22:29

Hi all,

I been working on actions to create "Tiny Planet" images -- Goggle it. Since there isn't a polar projection filter, I've been using the Effects>Effect Filters>Projection... filter. I created a plane by compressing the cone to a line and using the following angle settings:

Range : 360
Rotation: 90,0,0

Anyway this all seems to work well except there are surround color artifacts in the very center of the circle and also sometimes along the radius where the right and left edges meet. Does anyone have any ideas how to prevent these? Am I using the incorrect tool, or the tool incorrectly?

I've attached the Actions. Thanks for any help.

Steve
TinyPlanet.actions
TinyPlanet(mirror).actions
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Hoogo
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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by Hoogo » Sun 29 Sep 2013 23:10

Are you sure this isn't a mismatch of the right and left border of the picture?
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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by bkh » Mon 30 Sep 2013 01:27

Hoogo wrote:Are you sure this isn't a mismatch of the right and left border of the picture?
No, there's definitely something missing. If you change the background colour to transparent, there is a semi-transparent gap between the two joined edges, and there are also a few bits missing in the middle. This also happens if you project on the cone which comes with PL.

Cheers

Burkhard.

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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by SJ9000 » Tue 01 Oct 2013 00:45

Hi Hoogo and bkh,

Thanks for your replies.
Hoogo wrote:Are you sure this isn't a mismatch of the right and left border of the picture?
Hoogo: Shouldn't the two edges meet as a clean straight edge in either case? Whether it's a perfect match or not?

bkh: So something's not right, and PL isn't computing it correctly?

Also, it would be nice to choose which resampling method is used for the output.

Thanks,

Steve

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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by bkh » Tue 01 Oct 2013 09:50

SJ9000 wrote:bkh: So something's not right, and PL isn't computing it correctly?
Yes, seems that PL produces some tiny holes when images are getting larger. I've created a 3000 x 3000 px white layer, selected "Cone" from the Projections presets, and set angles to 360°, 90°, 0°, 0°. Background colour was black. In the centre, the projection has some holes:
center.png
The hole in the middle seems to be due to an error in the "Cone" shape – if I replace the shape by a large vector drawing which I created myself, the hole in the centre disappears.

In addition, the line where the two edges meet (from the centre straight down) isn't totally opaque:
border.png
I suppose that the developers are following this thread, and that this will be fixed soon.

In the meantime, I think that the problem can easily be fixed if you create the projection on a transparent background and just fill the holes by painting on a layer underneath the projection layer with a similar colour.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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GM1968
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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by GM1968 » Sat 19 Oct 2013 11:10

I try it : your action work find !

http://gabrielm1968.deviantart.com/art/ ... -408152474

;-)
Les Français utilisent aussi Photoline !
Image Image

SJ9000
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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by SJ9000 » Mon 21 Oct 2013 00:03

Hi GM1968,
GM1968 wrote:I try it : your action work find !
http://gabrielm1968.deviantart.com/art/ ... -408152474
I like your image. :) Too bad it has the 4 lines in the center, and probably the seam isn't perfect either. This is apparently a problem in the cone application of the filter. I was hoping it would be fixed . . . no change yet. :(
bkh wrote:The hole in the middle seems to be due to an error in the "Cone" shape – if I replace the shape by a large vector drawing which I created myself, the hole in the centre disappears.
Hi Burkhard,

How do I "replace the shape by a large vector drawing", to make the center artifacts go away? Please explain what you mean. Also, can it be recorded as an ACTION? As for "cloning" the seam artifacts out, sure that can be done, but it doesn't fix the filter problem.:(

Also wouldn't it be great if the Projection filter allowed the Range to be greater than 360 degrees, and the amount of overlap would be automatically gradient blended? That way if you didn't have a 360 degree image the seam would still blend together smoothly. That would be great! :D

Thanks again to the Hubers for all their great work!

Steve

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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by bkh » Mon 21 Oct 2013 09:24

SJ9000 wrote:How do I "replace the shape by a large vector drawing", to make the center artifacts go away? Please explain what you mean. Also, can it be recorded as an ACTION?
Just draw the 2d projection of the shape into a PL document as a vector shape and save it (for a cone, it's just a diagonal line, see the attached file). Then open the "Projection" dialogue, go to the "Body" tab and load the saved shape via the "Import" button. If you want to re-use that shape, you can save it as part of a filter preset. You can also load a shape while recording an acton, and the loaded shape will be recorded (but applying the action will not re-load the shape from file).
SJ9000 wrote:As for "cloning" the seam artifacts out, sure that can be done, but it doesn't fix the filter problem.:(
Sure, this was just intended as a workaround – I hope that this will be properly fixed soon.
SJ9000 wrote:Also wouldn't it be great if the Projection filter allowed the Range to be greater than 360 degrees, and the amount of overlap would be automatically gradient blended? That way if you didn't have a 360 degree image the seam would still blend together smoothly. That would be great! :D
Frankly, I don't think that this will give satisfactory results. You'll get better results by blending the two halves together manually: cut your image in the middle, swap the two pieces and merge them in the middle with whatever tool gives the best results. If you just want simple gradient blending, this could be part of an action.

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by bkh » Thu 24 Oct 2013 14:29

SJ9000 wrote:I been working on actions to create "Tiny Planet" images -- Goggle it. Since there isn't a polar projection filter, I've been using the Effects>Effect Filters>Projection... filter. I created a plane by compressing the cone to a line and using the following angle settings:
Fwiw, there's a polar projection filter in the latest beta version (just search for "Beta" in the forum if you are interested) which seems not to produce artifacts.

Cheers

Burkhard.

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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by SJ9000 » Sun 03 Nov 2013 23:13

bkh wrote:Fwiw, there's a polar projection filter in the latest beta version (just search for "Beta" in the forum if you are interested) which seems not to produce artifacts.
Thanks Burkhard for the info about the latest beta. The new filter, Effects>Shape Tools>Polar Coordinates..., works great -- no seam joint artifacts or other centeral defects -- good work Hubers! I wish that you could choose how the surround area is filled, like the action I wrote.

What do you think of these additions?
PolarCoordDial.png
Rotation angle: -- allows you to rotate the angle of the seam.

Surround area

Normal -- Radial pixel replication ( like the beta )

Normal + Swirl Angle -- Swirl the pixel replication ( like the "swirl" filter )

Color:

Normal color picker -- especially transparent ( for easy masking )

Eyedropper -- to select a color from the image

What do you think? Maybe it would also be useful to be able to specify the inside and outside radius of the projection. So if you wanted an annular image you might say 10% in ( from outside edge ) and 10% out so the polar plot starts 10% from the center. This would produce an image where the projection occupies the area between 10 to 90 percent of the full image area. Hope that all makes sense. An example:
Annular.png
Also I was wondering why the "Mark Extreme Values" button is available, the filter shouldn't alter the image contrast should it?

The filter also doesn't currently work correctly as an adjustment layer and can't be recorded in an action. I guess some of this is because it's still in "beta" and will be worked out in the official release.

Thanks again Hubers for a great app -- onward and upwards! And thanks Burkhard for your feedback.

Steve
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photoken
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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by photoken » Mon 04 Nov 2013 09:55

SJ9000 wrote:What do you think of these additions?
I think they needlessly complicate what is essentially a graphics "stunt" effect. PaintShop Pro has 4 options for its Polar Conversion -- in its "Edge mode" (what you call the "Surround"):
1. Wrap. This basically applies another Polar Conversion to the area outside of the main conversion.
2. Repeat. This is what the PL Beta currently does.
3. Color. (No need for your separate eyedropper, since the PL color picker already incorporates one.)
4. Transparent. (This is disabled if the layer is the background layer.) This is also unnecessary because the PL color picker allows choosing transparent as a "color".

Those options are what's important. Any funky swirl or wave or ? effect for the surrounding area can best be done outside the effect filter.

However, playing with the Polar Conversion showed the hard edge between the two sides of the original image and that got me thinking about some enhancements to PL's pattern generator. I'll add that suggestion to my Feature Request thread....
Ken
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Just take everything out on Highway 61.

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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by bkh » Mon 04 Nov 2013 10:42

photoken wrote:
SJ9000 wrote:What do you think of these additions?
I think they needlessly complicate what is essentially a graphics "stunt" effect. PaintShop Pro has 4 options for its Polar Conversion -- in its "Edge mode" (what you call the "Surround"):
1. Wrap. This basically applies another Polar Conversion to the area outside of the main conversion.
2. Repeat. This is what the PL Beta currently does.
3. Color. (No need for your separate eyedropper, since the PL color picker already incorporates one.)
4. Transparent. (This is disabled if the layer is the background layer.) This is also unnecessary because the PL color picker allows choosing transparent as a "color".
I already suggested option 3/4 in the beta testers forum, but the developers answered that they wanted to follow PS/PSE in only offering option 2. Note that you can do options 3 and 4 by adding a small coloured border to the top edge before applying the filter. I guess that option 1 is the same as adding a mirrored copy of the original layer at the top of the original layer and then crop the result).

Cheers

Burkhard.

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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by photoken » Mon 04 Nov 2013 21:37

bkh wrote:I already suggested option 3/4 in the beta testers forum, but the developers answered that they wanted to follow PS/PSE in only offering option 2. Note that you can do options 3 and 4 by adding a small coloured border to the top edge before applying the filter. I guess that option 1 is the same as adding a mirrored copy of the original layer at the top of the original layer and then crop the result).
Since it's straightforward to mask the central Polar Conversion area, I think users can accomplish options 3 and 4 relatively painlessly as the effect now stands. Option 1 can't be done -- it is a polar conversion of the original image, but starts the conversion at the edge of the central conversion area and continues to the edges of the image:
cows 01 polar.png
To be honest, I'm not sure how useful that option really is. Just wanted to mention the options available from the competition....
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Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.

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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by bkh » Mon 04 Nov 2013 23:47

photoken wrote:Option 1 can't be done -- it is a polar conversion of the original image, but starts the conversion at the edge of the central conversion area and continues to the edges of the image
Very close to what I thought (just without the mirroring), and easily done with PL. Place two copies of the original image side by side, one above the other. Stretch to twice the width and apply the polar conversion, then crop to the size of the original image. You'll get the same result:
duplication.jpg
(The image quality isn't perfect because I first transformed your sample back to an ordinary image, then did the copying and another polar transform.)

Cheers

Burkhard.
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Re: Tiny Planet images -- Polar projection

Post by photoken » Tue 05 Nov 2013 01:17

bkh wrote:Place two copies of the original image side by side, one above the other. Stretch to twice the width and apply the polar conversion, then crop to the size of the original image.
Nice technique...thanks! I haven't quite duplicated the effect, but I see how it might work....
Ken
Yes, I think it can be eeeeeasily done....
Just take everything out on Highway 61.