deleting a selection

[brucet]

I'm sorry for the dumb questions but somethings are confusing me. I'm trying to erase a part of an image. My main/current editor is PSPx7 so maybe I'm going about it the wrong way in Photoline!!!
In PSP I can make a selection with the freehand selection tool. Draw a line around any object. Hit delete and it disappears. Showing the layer below it. Or a transparent selection if there is no lower layer.
Now in photoline I've selected Free Lasso. Drawn a line around the object. Hit delete and all I get is the colour that is currently set as a background colour.

So my question is - how do I make a selection with the Lasso and delete that selection from the image? (Imagine I want to cut a car from a photo and end up with just the car and no background). Maybe I have the wrong type of layer.

I do museum work where I need to lift an object out of an image. Then paste them onto other background/layers. These need to be very precise due to the details involved. So the automatic tools are not an option.

So far I'm impressed with Photoline but some things are playing with my mind!!!
By the way. Is there a way to reset Photoline back to default. I often change something and maybe that is affecting what I'm trying to do.

regards

[bkh]

So my question is - how do I make a selection with the Lasso and delete that selection from the image? (Imagine I want to cut a car from a photo and end up with just the car and no background). Maybe I have the wrong type of layer.

Your layer doesn't have a transparency channel, so PL deletes by filling the selection using the background colour. So all you have to do is turn transparency on for that layer in the Layer Attributes Panel (use View -> Panels -> Layer Attributes to open it if needed). "Transparency" is the checkbox in the "Type" section, after the bit depth.

I do museum work where I need to lift an object out of an image. Then paste them onto other background/layers. These need to be very precise due to the details involved. So the automatic tools are not an option.

By the way. Is there a way to reset Photoline back to default. I often change something and maybe that is affecting what I'm trying to do.

You might consider running PL in USB stick mode (see chapter 8.5 at the end of the PL manual/the online help). If something gets messed up, you can just quit PL, delete the PhotoLineSettings folder and create a fresh one, and you are back to the defaults. On OS X, you can also delete the PhotoLine folder in ~/Library/Preferences; afaik, this is more difficult on Windows.

Cheers

Burkhard.

[brucet]

Thanks bkh you've save my sanity. I knew there had to be a way of doing it.

I must admit I'm a bit rushed at the moment. I'm balancing learning Photoline with completing a large assignment for a museum.
So time to read all the help files will be on hold for a while.

Here's a sample of an old job. I cut out the bike and edit it independent of the background. Thus the need to zoom way in and be very precise with the cut out.

Again thanks for your help.

regards

[photoken]

An alternative to cutting out the image is to use masking, keeping only one image layer (the original).

Since you've already created a very precise Lasso, with the background image active use the options under the Mask icon at the bottom of the Layers panel to "Create from Mask". That will separate the object from the background, and you can use Edit...Copy Merged to copy just the separated object to the Clipboard and then paste it as a layer onto a new image of your choice:

beach motorcycle.jpg

The advantage of doing this is that you can keep the original image intact and easily target the object and the background for adjustments, if you need to keep the original background:

Old Motorcycle 01 c final.jpg

I simply duplicated the first mask, dragged the duplicate masks to the other adjustment layers, and reversed the colours of the masks to target the background.

The layers look like this:

Old Motorcycle 01 c layers.png

(Ignore those top two layers -- I created the Lasso by using the Vector Lasso tool and then converted a duplicate of the vector image to a raster image which I then used for the masks.)

[photoken]

By the way. Is there a way to reset Photoline back to default. I often change something and maybe that is affecting what I'm trying to do.

I think you can delete the contents of the hidden directory (when PL is closed):
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\PhotoLine
and PL will regenerate the defaults when started. I'm really too scared to test that, so if you're OK with living dangerously , you can try that.

[brucet]

Thanks Photoken. I'm guessing there are many approaches to various tasks.
My 'normal' routine is to separate what I want or need and save as a new image. Then I can come back and build images with whatever I think suits.
Building up layers from various images.
After many years with PSP it's not so easy teaching this old dog new tricks. I wont change my routine at this stage but simply learn new tools to accomplish my tasks. For instance in PSP adjustment layers are painfully slow and thus I avoid them. But Photoline's adjustment layers work like a dream. So I'm assessing options at this time.
If only PSP would work with PLD files and PLD work with PSP files. If only!!

regards

[photoken]

Thanks Photoken. I'm guessing there are many approaches to various tasks.

Yep. Force of habit makes me reach for the masking tools first, but that's not to say that's always the best technique to use.

I'm guessing that when you have time you'll experiment with saving your PSP files as PSD files and see how useable they are when opened in PL. As I remember, that seemed to work OK for me when I switched from PSP.

[brucet]

Thanks. Never thought of using PSD files.
Another diversion!!!!!

regards

[brucet]

Photoken I've found a bit of time to play!!!
I've found that I can create adjustment layers in PSP. Save them as a PSD. Then open that file in PL. Everything seems fine. However if I create adjustment layers in PL and save as a PSD then try to open that file in PSP the layers are merged. I maybe missing something in PL re 'save as'. Any layers created in PSP remain regardless of which program I work in. However any layers created in PL are merged.

Not prefect but it actually suits my work flow!!

regards

[Hoogo]

However if I create adjustment layers in PL and save as a PSD then try to open that file in PSP the layers are merged. I maybe missing something in PL re 'save as'. Any layers created in PSP remain regardless of which program I work in. However any layers created in PL are merged

Well, the import of PSD works much better than the export of PSD.

[brucet]

Folks I think I spoke too soon. In general the 'save as' works but not always. Sometime it will save and open a file with multiple adjustment layers and sometime it merges all but one adjustment layer. There's an inconsistency that I haven't worked out yet. Not sure yet if it's Pl or PSP causing the problem. At the moment I like to use Fill light/clarity in PSP. A function I haven't yet found in PL.

Time has run out for me today so a fresh brain in the morning may take me to the next step. Maybe!!

regards

[photoken]

Not sure yet if it's Pl or PSP causing the problem.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the suspicion is definitely on PSP. The Corel products I used (CorelDraw and PSP) have been notorious over the years for not doing a good job of supporting the file formats that they claim to. Witness the various complaints in the PSP user forum about problems with PDF, PSD and TIF files....

To put it more bluntly, I don't trust PSP to correctly write (or read) other image formats. A test would be to create PSD files using Adobe's products (either Photoshop or Photoshop Elements) and see how those "official" PSD files open.

At the moment I like to use Fill light/clarity in PSP. A function I haven't yet found in PL.

PL doesn't implement those functions in a single adjustment. You'll need to apply them separately. There are multiple ways of achieving that, but these are the two simplest:

• Fill Light
  Use the Light/Shadow adjustment.
• Clarity
  Use the built-in "Clarity" action.

For "Clarity", I prefer the following method:
Use a High Pass layer as follows:

1. Create a High Pass adjustment layer at the top of the stack.
2. Adjust its "Size" parameter until you just begin to see some details in the gray background.
3. Set the blend mode of the High Pass layer to "Overlay".

[photoken]

I've found that I can create adjustment layers in PSP. Save them as a PSD. Then open that file in PL. Everything seems fine. However if I create adjustment layers in PL and save as a PSD then try to open that file in PSP the layers are merged.

Sounds like PL is correctly reading the type of adjustment layer and converting it to the equivalent PL adjustment layer, while PSP is simply giving up on any adjustment layer that doesn't exactly match what it has internally.

A word of caution about PSD files: We've had a few discussions here about them (and the developers are actively adding more and more PSD import enhancements), and to sum it up, the PSD format is proprietary and not completely documented. A program can open a PSD file by ignoring what it doesn't understand and still get an image that's more or less useable. The same is not true for writing PSD files -- ignoring undocumented functions usually creates problems. As I understand it, if the developers don't know precisely what Photoshop function is the equivalent of their function, the safest thing to do is merge the function into a raster image layer.

So, the bottom line is that what you get with opening and writing PSD files in other applications is what you get. Unless the PSD file has been created by an Adobe product, all bets are off....

[brucet]

Photoken the issue I'm having is that on most, not all, saves adjust layers are being merged. So if in PSP I have a layer then apply a curves adjustment layer and then a levels layer followed by a hue/saturation layer I get just one new layer in PL. Same happens going back to PSP. PL has issue with 'child' layers.

But as I learn more about PL I see less need to stress over going back and forth.

But it's a great time waster!!!

regards

[photoken]

Photoken the issue I'm having is that on most, not all, saves adjust layers are being merged. So if in PSP I have a layer then apply a curves adjustment layer and then a levels layer followed by a hue/saturation layer I get just one new layer in PL. Same happens going back to PSP. PL has issue with 'child' layers.

It would be great if you (or someone) could create a PSD file in either Photoshop or Photoshop Elements that demonstrates the problem when opened in PL. Then the developers could use that "official" PSD file to troubleshoot the problem. They've been real good at that -- as part of the Beta Testing, I've sent a PSD file with child adjustment layers to PL support and they've incorporated those child adjustment layer imports into the current release version.

In fact, Herbert123 has been doing yeoman work in the Beta forum supplying example PSD files from Photoshop and tracking the PSD importing features. Just speaking of adjustment layers alone, there are now 18 Photoshop adjustment layer types that import correctly into PL as adjustment layers (some with minor colour shifts).

I like what you said about not getting stressed....