Neue Testversion 21.40b7

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Gerhard Huber
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Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Gerhard Huber » Tue 08 Jan 2019 18:39

Hallo,

es gibt wieder eine neue Testversion 21.40b7.

Windows:
http://www.pl32.com/beta/pl2140b7.zip

Mac OS:
http://www.pl32.com/beta/plx2140b7.zip


Neues:
  • Ebenenliste, Maske durch Klick auf Vorschau: Überarbeitet
  • Ebenenliste, Maske durch Klick auf Vorschau: Sowohl bei Intensität als auch bei Transparenz kann nun hinzugefügt und abgezogen werden
  • Ebenen, Kanalausgabe: In den Ebenenattributen können nun einzelne Kanäle abgeschaltet werden
  • Plug-In-Schnittstelle aktualisiert
  • Mosaik: Die relative Abflachung der Hervorhebung bezieht sich nun auf die Zellengröße
  • Neue Funktion: Dynamik (Vibrance)
  • Diverse Fehlerbehebungen und kleinere Verbesserungen
New:
  • Layer list, mask by clicking on thumbnail: Revised
  • Layer list, mask by clicking on thumbnail: Both intensity and transparency can be added and subtracted now
  • Layers, channel filter: Individual channels can now be switched off in the Layer Attributes.
  • Plug-in interface updated
  • Mosaic: The relative flattening of the highlighting now refers to the cell size
  • New Function: Dynamics (Vibrance)
  • Various bug fixes and minor improvements

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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Herbert123 » Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:53

Really nice changes to improve the workflow!

I did run into a problem with selecting masks: no matter what I try, I cannot seem to add to a brightness/luminance mask. Hold down <shift>, click on first layer thumbnail. Then hold down <shift><ctrl> and click on a second layer's thumbnail: nothing happens.

It does work fine with <ctrl><shift> selecting multiple layers based on transparency.

A secondary issue I discovered is that it is not possible to add/remove to masks based on a combination of layer transparency and brightness when I first load a transparency based mask, and then try to add a mask based on brightness.


In regards to the new Channels option in the layer panel: great addition.
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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Herbert123 » Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:57

I am encountering a strange problem. Open the following image in PhotoLine:
https://www.peppercarrot.com/0_sources/ ... ift_00.jpg

Then add a Color Overlay layer effect, with (for example) a red colour and set the blend mode to Lighten. This colours the black inks, but it also reduces the resolution of the entire image.

I changed the Relative To option, but it doesn't seem to correct the resolution issue.

How do I keep the original resolution from being affected?
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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Martin Huber » Wed 09 Jan 2019 10:54

Herbert123 wrote:
Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:53
I did run into a problem with selecting masks: no matter what I try, I cannot seem to add to a brightness/luminance mask. Hold down <shift>, click on first layer thumbnail. Then hold down <shift><ctrl> and click on a second layer's thumbnail: nothing happens.
There is a problem with the brightness mask, if the clicked layer is smaller than the document: In this situation the mask will be restricted to the clicked layer. I will fix that.
Herbert123 wrote:
Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:53
It does work fine with <ctrl><shift> selecting multiple layers based on transparency.
Yes, the transparency mask doesn't have this problem.
Herbert123 wrote:
Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:53
A secondary issue I discovered is that it is not possible to add/remove to masks based on a combination of layer transparency and brightness when I first load a transparency based mask, and then try to add a mask based on brightness.
That's maybe the same problem as above: Modifying the mask based on the brightness restricts the resulting mask to the active layer. Is that your situation?

Martin

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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by NoSi » Wed 09 Jan 2019 11:49

Größenänderung eines von PL gespeicherten SVG setzt den (transparenten) Hintergrund beim Verlassen des eines Größenfeldes (Dokumentgröße) auf „weiß“. Diese Änderung fehlt in der Undo-Liste:

09-01-_2019_10-45-11.png
Nachtrag 1: Bei Breitenänderungen passiert es gelegentlich, bei Höhenänderung immer.

Ich muss gerade divers SVG-Größen anpassen, es tritt immer auf, jedoch mal schon bei der Breiten-, spätestens bei der Höhenänderung. Also in verschiedenen Dateien.

Nachtrag 2: SVGs, die mit transparentem Hintergrund als SVG gespeichert werden, lädt PL mit weißem Hintergrund.

Nachtrag 3: Die Hintergrundfarbe geht augenscheinlich immer irgendwie verloren – oder ist da eine neue Einstellung dazu gekommen, die bei mir evtl. noch undefiniert ist?
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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Martin Huber » Wed 09 Jan 2019 18:20

NoSi wrote:
Wed 09 Jan 2019 11:49
Größenänderung eines von PL gespeicherten SVG setzt den (transparenten) Hintergrund beim Verlassen des eines Größenfeldes (Dokumentgröße) auf „weiß“.
Ich schaue mir das an.
NoSi wrote:
Wed 09 Jan 2019 11:49
(...)
Nachtrag 2: SVGs, die mit transparentem Hintergrund als SVG gespeichert werden, lädt PL mit weißem Hintergrund.
Die Hintergrundfarbe des Dokuments hat keine Auswirkung auf die erzeugte SVG-Datei.

Da SVG keine Hintergrundfarbe kennt, müssten theoretisch SVG-Dateien immer mit transparenter Hintergrundfarbe geladen werden, was meiner Ansicht nach blöd aussieht. Und beim Speichern müsste eine nicht-transparente Hintergrundfarbe als Rechteck ausgegeben werden. Das hätte aber als Konsequenz, dass Dokumente mit einem weißen Hintergrund beim Speichern als SVG immer ein zusätzliches Rechteck bekommen. Ich bin mir nicht sicher, dass das allgemein so gewollt ist.

Martin

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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Martin Huber » Wed 09 Jan 2019 18:43

Herbert123 wrote:
Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:57
I am encountering a strange problem. Open the following image in PhotoLine:
https://www.peppercarrot.com/0_sources/ ... ift_00.jpg

Then add a Color Overlay layer effect, with (for example) a red colour and set the blend mode to Lighten. This colours the black inks, but it also reduces the resolution of the entire image.

I changed the Relative To option, but it doesn't seem to correct the resolution issue.

How do I keep the original resolution from being affected?
Instead of a color layer effect you could use a red rectangle set to Lighten.

Martin

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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by PhilM » Wed 09 Jan 2019 18:45

Gerhard Huber wrote:
Tue 08 Jan 2019 18:39

New:
  • Layer list, mask by clicking on thumbnail: Revised
  • Layer list, mask by clicking on thumbnail: Both intensity and transparency can be added and subtracted now
  • Layers, channel filter: Individual channels can now be switched off in the Layer Attributes.
    ...
Could you give a little explanation on the above new features ?

Thanks in advance.

Philippe

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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Martin Huber » Wed 09 Jan 2019 19:06

Gerhard Huber wrote:
Tue 08 Jan 2019 18:39
[*] Layer list, mask by clicking on thumbnail: Revised
[*] Layer list, mask by clicking on thumbnail: Both intensity and transparency can be added and subtracted now
In the past, Ctrl+clicking a layer's thumbnail already created a mask based on the layer's transparent, Ctrl+Shift+click added the transparency to the mask, Ctrl+Alt+click removed.
Additionally, there was Shift+click that created a mask based on the layer's brightness. There was no way add/remove the brightness to/from the mask.

Now the behaviour is a bit different:
- Depending on the modifier key you press first (Shift or Ctrl), the mask will be modified by the layer's brightness or transparency.
- Both modes support now adding and removing (with Shift/Ctrl and Alt).
- If the brightness is used, the mouse cursor will display a small sun.
Gerhard Huber wrote:
Tue 08 Jan 2019 18:39
[*] Layers, channel filter: Individual channels can now be switched off in the Layer Attributes.
Well, this is kind of self-explanatory: Layers can now be restricted to certain color channels of the document. So you can tell a layer to modify only the R and G channel in a RGB document. This is controlled in the Layer Attributes.

Martin

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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by russellcottrell » Wed 09 Jan 2019 20:22

Layers, channel filter: Individual channels can now be switched off in the Layer Attributes.
Is there a way to get adjustments to the channels to “stick”? As it is, if you apply a curve, or paint, on a single channel, then turn the other channels back on, the adjustments are applied to all the channels as they normally would have. It would seem that the point is to be able to adjust a single channel in the composite image.

Also, could the channels be displayed in grayscale, as they are in the channels panel? They are then much easier to see and adjust, especially the a and b channels.

Thank you . . . .

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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by NoSi » Wed 09 Jan 2019 20:54

Martin Huber wrote:
Wed 09 Jan 2019 18:20
Die Hintergrundfarbe des Dokuments hat keine Auswirkung auf die erzeugte SVG-Datei.

Da SVG keine Hintergrundfarbe kennt, müssten theoretisch SVG-Dateien immer mit transparenter Hintergrundfarbe geladen werden, was meiner Ansicht nach blöd aussieht.
Solange ich mich nur innerhalb von SVGs bewege, ist das sicherlich nachvollziehbar und o.k.

Der so erzwungene erzwungene Hintergrund bekommt allerdings Relevanz beim Export in PNG oder GIF. M.E. sollte beim Laden die Anzeige dem tatsächlichen Inhalt folgen – also bei einem SVG der Hintergrund transparent sein, denn wenn da keiner ist, sollte auch keiner angezeigt werden. Wie „meine“ Transparenz aussieht, kann ich mir ja selbst wählen.

Davon unbelassen habe ich aktuell generelle Schwierigkeiten mit Transparenz – auch bei RGB-Bildern. Eine mit Transparenz leer angelegte Ebene lässt sich erst füllen, wenn der Transparenz-Schalter in der Ebene mal aus/ein-geschaltet wird. Keine Ahnung ob das schon immer so war.
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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Herbert123 » Wed 09 Jan 2019 22:09

Martin Huber wrote:
Wed 09 Jan 2019 18:43
Herbert123 wrote:
Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:57
I am encountering a strange problem. Open the following image in PhotoLine:
https://www.peppercarrot.com/0_sources/ ... ift_00.jpg

Then add a Color Overlay layer effect, with (for example) a red colour and set the blend mode to Lighten. This colours the black inks, but it also reduces the resolution of the entire image.

I changed the Relative To option, but it doesn't seem to correct the resolution issue.

How do I keep the original resolution from being affected?
Instead of a color layer effect you could use a red rectangle set to Lighten.

Martin
Yes, I am aware of that method (and colorizing with the hue/saturation/lightness works as well), but a color overlay layer effect shouldn't reduce the overall pixel resolution of the original, I think? How is this prevented?
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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Herbert123 » Wed 09 Jan 2019 22:30

russellcottrell wrote:
Wed 09 Jan 2019 20:22
Layers, channel filter: Individual channels can now be switched off in the Layer Attributes.
Is there a way to get adjustments to the channels to “stick”? As it is, if you apply a curve, or paint, on a single channel, then turn the other channels back on, the adjustments are applied to all the channels as they normally would have. It would seem that the point is to be able to adjust a single channel in the composite image.

Also, could the channels be displayed in grayscale, as they are in the channels panel? They are then much easier to see and adjust, especially the a and b channels.

Thank you . . . .
Your thoughts mirror mine, I agree. That said, painting and applying adjustments to individual channels has always been treated differently in PhotoLine compare to other image editors: the drawing tools have a channel option in the tools, and many (but not all) adjustments have a similar channel pick option. This workflow does have its perks.

How layer blending works with channels in Photoshop is found in the Advanced Blending options, and similar to this new channel option in PhotoLine's Layer panel, that is where channels can be turned off or on. They are the same thing, same function.

With this channel option added to the layer panel I am afraid the user experience in how channels are edited directly might get somewhat fragmented and illogical in places. Not sure. The first thing I tried to do was to turn on only the red channel of a layer, and paint in it, expecting it to be applied to the red channel only. Then I applied an adjustment. But both are applied to all channels no matter, which feels a bit odd. My first inclination was that it is placed in the wrong spot because of how it responds, maybe.

Photoshop has always allowed direct (destructive) manipulation of channels in the Channels panel, while PhotoLine's Channels panel is rather more of a viewing tool. Different approaches to channel manipulation, both with their pros and cons.

That said, I do sometimes miss at least the option to directly manipulate channels in the Channel panel in PhotoLine.

I also miss the option to have selections work directly on pixels when transforming these and the missing indexed colour mode which are the reasons why PhotoLine is hampered for pixel art work and I use other tools for this. It would be pretty cool to have an indexed colour mode similar to the monochrome mode we have now. But I am digressing here. Direct manipulation of channels in PhotoLine could be improved, in my opinion.

But solving the GUI approach for this might take some time.
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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Herbert123 » Wed 09 Jan 2019 22:45

By the way, the channels should not be displayed as grey ones when working with the new channel option. That's also how it works in Photoshop.
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Re: Neue Testversion 21.40b7

Post by Martin Huber » Thu 10 Jan 2019 15:48

russellcottrell wrote:
Wed 09 Jan 2019 20:22
Layers, channel filter: Individual channels can now be switched off in the Layer Attributes.
Is there a way to get adjustments to the channels to “stick”? As it is, if you apply a curve, or paint, on a single channel, then turn the other channels back on, the adjustments are applied to all the channels as they normally would have. It would seem that the point is to be able to adjust a single channel in the composite image.
No, that's not the point. The point is to restrict the display of a layer to certain channels. It can be thought of as a sort of mix/blend mode and can be used for something like channel packing.

Martin