Neue Testversion 22.90b15

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Herbert123
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Herbert123 »

shijan wrote: Wed 25 Aug 2021 23:06 But those gradient bars are so waste of space and ugly looking. Adding new useless elements that waste space (gradient bars) to improve another new useless elements (triangle handles) :shock:
The gradients serve two purposes:
1) to indicate the 'direction': dark to light or no ink to 100% coverage ink. (This is not implemented in PhotoLine or most other image editors, except Photoshop and Corel Photo, I believe)
2) it's simpler to visually tell where the right top range ends, because the triangle indicates this in the gradient.

Actually, when I worked in Photoshop I always preferred the triangles to set the range. And I find this one of those daily inconveniences in PhotoLine, because I keep missing the main curve handles due to them being too small - until now.

I quite like the triangles. I hope they stay. It's an improvement.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Herbert123 »

shijan wrote: Tue 24 Aug 2021 01:41 Just discover Path Painting tool (hidden in "Layout->Image" sub menu). Really great tool! I only could wish that it was developed further in future in more non-destructive way. Sort of tool that allow to draw vector path in realtime and instantly see how brush stroke looks. Also option to change already created vector path and change already created brush stroke settings on that path.
Ah yes, I mentioned this years and years ago to the devs! It would be absolutely brilliant if this were to be an integrated option of the vector properties - imagine the possibilities. It could be extended to include vector brushes as well.

Imagine this combined with the stamp tool brush... In real time. I would love to see all these fragmented vector/stamp/path painting tools to be consolidated into one integrated vector tool.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by shijan »

So the problem is not a lack of triangles. The problem is that curve points are hidden under the borders and so hard to grab them in the corners and edges.
dark to light direction in curves is a default in any app, so i guess no one bothers about this at all. There is also a histogram at background that helps to see what is going on.
Last edited by shijan on Wed 08 Sep 2021 01:11, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

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...
Last edited by shijan on Tue 07 Sep 2021 20:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

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...
Last edited by shijan on Tue 07 Sep 2021 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Herbert123 »

Gerhard Huber wrote: Wed 18 Aug 2021 05:39 Neues:
  • Alpha-Version für einen JPEG XL Import
I'd like to propose AVIF import and export, and for inclusion in the web export - Chrome, Firefox, Opera, and Android all support AVIF images now, and the compression ratio for web is impressive. Netflix makes use of it as well on their site.

References and demo files:
https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-avif/
https://netflixtechblog.com/avif-for-ne ... 1d75675fe4
https://caniuse.com/?search=avif

PS JPEG XL remains unsupported in browsers so far.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Martin Huber »

shijan wrote: Mon 23 Aug 2021 03:32 It looks like brush works incorrectly in Linear gamma. If draw something with soft brush - blended samples produce some strange banding effect in the center of the drawn line.
I can't reproduce that here.
shijan wrote: Mon 23 Aug 2021 04:07 Another part of this problem - Transparent pixels of the Layer ignore ICC profile gamma setting and color management. As result - drawing on different parts of the image in Linear gamma produce different look of the brush:
I can't reproduce that either.
shijan wrote: Mon 23 Aug 2021 04:07 Image
Oh, now I think I understand: You have a background layer with simple sRGB and atop of that one with gamma 1.0.

This explains both problems:
- The banding effect is caused by the conversion from linear gamma to sRGB gamma. The "linear" layer itself doesn't have that.
- The difference appearance has the same reason: The black stroke on the whte background has color values from 0 to 100%, the black stroke on the transparency has only 0%. So the stroke on the white background is affected by the gamma conversion, while the other isn't. But it still behaves differently here on my computer. It is always helpful to send us a small sample document to help us understand what you are doing.

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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Martin Huber »

shijan wrote: Mon 23 Aug 2021 05:36 And third part of this problem - currently brushes itself in PhotoLine are 8 bit only, even if used in 16 or 32 bit document or layer. This is really bad :(
I don't know.

I did a web search and it seems there is an option in Ps for higher bit depth brushes, but it is mostly unknown and unused. But I may be wrong.

A higher bit depth might be useful with large brushes (soft edge larger than 256 pixels) at the cost of a significantly slower handling and larger memory consumption. And of course it would be quite a bit of work to implement it.

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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Martin Huber »

shijan wrote: Mon 23 Aug 2021 07:54 Preview artifacts when use brush based on custom curve combined with low hardness, angle and roundness. In this example i paint with white color on white background to show artifacts only:
I can't reproduce that, neither on a Retina nor on a non-Retina display. Does this happen with every image and every zoom factor?

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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Herbert123 »

Martin Huber wrote: Thu 26 Aug 2021 16:58
shijan wrote: Mon 23 Aug 2021 05:36 And third part of this problem - currently brushes itself in PhotoLine are 8 bit only, even if used in 16 or 32 bit document or layer. This is really bad :(
I don't know.

I did a web search and it seems there is an option in Ps for higher bit depth brushes, but it is mostly unknown and unused. But I may be wrong.

A higher bit depth might be useful with large brushes (soft edge larger than 256 pixels) at the cost of a significantly slower handling and larger memory consumption. And of course it would be quite a bit of work to implement it.

Martin
I would have to concur. It is possible in Photoshop to create 16bit brushes (brush icons in the brush panel are then displayed with a 16bit indication), but I have never seen any artist use those for drawing.

I do agree however that it is essential that there is a way to stamp 16bit large textures. I don't recall exactly, but I believe the stamp tool retains full 16bit/32bit values?
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Herbert123 »

Request for 360 degree Panorama editing.

I am unsure if this is possible in PhotoLine to implement:

Opening 360 degree panoramas in full 16/32bit mode is already possible, but editing these is very difficult, because the sphere projection is flattened, of course.

Is it possible to add a sphere panorama mode where the panorama is projected on that sphere, and the user can then look around and edit the panorama in that mode?
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by Herbert123 »

Crashing bug!

Open the attached file.

Open the new Animate panel.

Select all frames or a single frame (layers), then Layout--> Document-->Scale, Mode Percentage, 200%, Quick.
Click OK.

Crash!

PL will not crash if the Animate panel is closed first. It has something to do with the Animate panel interfering.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

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...
Last edited by shijan on Tue 07 Sep 2021 20:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

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...
Last edited by shijan on Fri 03 Sep 2021 14:30, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Neue Testversion 22.90b15

Post by shijan »

I checked Photoshop 2018 and Affinity, and they both use 16 bit basic brushes in 16 bit document. Photoshop do dithering in 8 bit (if enabled in color settings), and seems have tiny artifacts in 16 bit (may be related known 15 bit limitation in PS, or due some smart up-sample of 8 bit brush). I didn't turn any special 16 bit options for brushes there and have no idea where are they located.
Affinity looks like use real 16 bit.
Here are some examples. Brush size is 1000x1000 pixels, Hardness - 0%, same range of input Levels applied to amplify bit depth loss effect.
Not a pure scientific side by side test because brushes in different apps use different curve and also it is impossible to snap brush exact to center. But i guess this is enough to see basic difference..
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by shijan on Fri 27 Aug 2021 03:16, edited 2 times in total.
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